Crown

@Gnil

I didn't drive his GT3RS but he told me that he's missing it a lot and he'd prefer it over the GT2RS as he isn't driving on tracks and especially on mountain roads he liked the N/A engine much better!

TRAKCAR:

I drove both, I prefer the Gt3RS, a bit sharper better sound and the suspension is weird at Sebring so we know the GT2RS needs a different setup.

But main reason is if you get a GT2RS on track, you can only play with another GT2RS :-)

 

Even that is iffy. different skill level means different driving. 

The GT2RS arrives at corners so much faster that the braking part becomes very important. For someone with less balls, they will brake quite a bit earlier and every corner adds up. Soon there is half a lap difference. You saw it first hand at Nurburgring behind me. Had you been in a GT2RS you probably passed me in no time 

The car magnify skill level difference like no others. 

Lord_Driftalot:

@Gnil

I didn't drive his GT3RS but he told me that he's missing it a lot and he'd prefer it over the GT2RS as he isn't driving on tracks and especially on mountain roads he liked the N/A engine much better!

Seems in line with most owner's comments 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

TRAKCAR:

I drove both, I prefer the Gt3RS, a bit sharper better sound and the suspension is weird at Sebring so we know the GT2RS needs a different setup.

But main reason is if you get a GT2RS on track, you can only play with another GT2RS :-)

 

GT2 RS on the track flies past the others like a rocket. True, not much to play with other then oneself , but I guess, that is a full hand already .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

TRAKCAR:

I drove both, I prefer the Gt3RS, a bit sharper better sound and the suspension is weird at Sebring so we know the GT2RS needs a different setup.

But main reason is if you get a GT2RS on track, you can only play with another GT2RS :-)

 

GT2 RS on the track flies past the others like a rocket. True, not much to play with other then oneself , but I guess, that is a full hand already .

... Pun intended? 

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Joost:

Gnil:

TRAKCAR:

I drove both, I prefer the Gt3RS, a bit sharper better sound and the suspension is weird at Sebring so we know the GT2RS needs a different setup.

But main reason is if you get a GT2RS on track, you can only play with another GT2RS :-)

 

GT2 RS on the track flies past the others like a rocket. True, not much to play with other then oneself , but I guess, that is a full hand already .

... Pun intended? 

Now imagine that would be a manual. 

Whoopsy:

The GT2RS arrives at corners so much faster that the braking part becomes very important. For someone with less balls, they will brake quite a bit earlier and every corner adds up. Soon there is half a lap difference. You saw it first hand at Nurburgring behind me. Had you been in a GT2RS you probably passed me in no time 

The car magnify skill level difference like no others. 

Those are among the reasons that I sold my GT2RS.   I'm just an OK driver and I am now old enough to finally realize it. 

I discovered that it was difficult for me (GT2RS) to stay well ahead of properly driven GT3RS's during track days because I brake in a more relaxed fashion than was required.  I could do it, but driving that close to the edge removed the enjoyment I used to get out of merely driving the correct line.

I found that the GT2RS arrived at corners so much faster than my previous GT3RS that I had to re-learn some tracks altogether.  It was a really weird experience to regret accelerating so strongly as I approached the next corner in quick succession.  I needed to avoid entering the next corner way too fast or it would force me into a slow recovery maneuver.  It was a confusing sensation.  I never really got used to it.

The other aspect is the terminal velocity at the end of longish straights.  At Mid-Ohio I was well used to speeds in the 145-153 MPH range before braking for a slowish 90°corner.  The GT2RS was in the 160+ range.  That is just as fast as some pro race cars from not so long ago.  I'm now 70 and as I slow down in life while the cars speed up ..... my enthusiasms and their means start to diverge.

--

Mike

918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

Ferdie:

Joost:

Gnil:

TRAKCAR:

I drove both, I prefer the Gt3RS, a bit sharper better sound and the suspension is weird at Sebring so we know the GT2RS needs a different setup.

But main reason is if you get a GT2RS on track, you can only play with another GT2RS :-)

 

GT2 RS on the track flies past the others like a rocket. True, not much to play with other then oneself , but I guess, that is a full hand already .

... Pun intended? 

Now imagine that would be a manual. 

 Not sure in a Gt2 you get time for that 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StdN8oeV5KM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KW_kcaHtpQ

The extra power of the GT2 RS doesn't help much on certain tracks...unless, like Whoopsie said, you know how to brake late...very late.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

W8MM:

Whoopsy:

The GT2RS arrives at corners so much faster that the braking part becomes very important. For someone with less balls, they will brake quite a bit earlier and every corner adds up. Soon there is half a lap difference. You saw it first hand at Nurburgring behind me. Had you been in a GT2RS you probably passed me in no time 

The car magnify skill level difference like no others. 

Those are among the reasons that I sold my GT2RS.   I'm just an OK driver and I am now old enough to finally realize it. 

I discovered that it was difficult for me (GT2RS) to stay well ahead of properly driven GT3RS's during track days because I brake in a more relaxed fashion than was required.  I could do it, but driving that close to the edge removed the enjoyment I used to get out of merely driving the correct line.

I found that the GT2RS arrived at corners so much faster than my previous GT3RS that I had to re-learn some tracks altogether.  It was a really weird experience to regret accelerating so strongly as I approached the next corner in quick succession.  I needed to avoid entering the next corner way too fast or it would force me into a slow recovery maneuver.  It was a confusing sensation.  I never really got used to it.

The other aspect is the terminal velocity at the end of longish straights.  At Mid-Ohio I was well used to speeds in the 145-153 MPH range before braking for a slowish 90°corner.  The GT2RS was in the 160+ range.  That is just as fast as some pro race cars from not so long ago.  I'm now 70 and as I slow down in life while the cars speed up ..... my enthusiasms and their means start to diverge.

--

 

Mike

 

918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

You are not alone. 99.9% of the driving population will come to the same conclusion.

Until someone has driven one on track, they will think we are joking.

I had hundreds of laps at the Nurburgring GP track, I thought I knew the track, but it appears to be a completely different one in a GT2RS vs a Cup car. I am approaching corners at way faster speed but with inferior brakes as compared to Cup cars, can't use the same brake markers, plus the Cup car on slicks is cornering that much faster. Major difference in turn in speed and braking zones. At some point in the session I jus said fuck it and lift on the straights to coast.

Once the car got back at my track it's the same deal. The extra terminal speed on straights isn't that much different than in a 918, and while I have tons of seat time on track with 911s or in the 918, the combination of the speed and handling differences sort of tripped me out. The word I would use is that I didn't quite feel 'safe'. Our 3 resident young guns doing Porsche racing were having loads of fun lapping the 2RS and trying to beat each other on timing, the spread between my times vs them is never greater than in the 2RS. Most of the time I am perhaps a couple seconds off them in just about anything, but in the 2RS it's more like 4. This car really weeds out the best of the best. 

Like you, I sold mine too.

It's pointless to drive it on the street as a 'trophy', and I can't seem to enjoy it fully on a track either. 

Fascinating to read this stuff. I find the 3RS quite intuitive, in that it flows well; the power is in balance with the cornering and braking abilities. Sounds like the 2RS changed this balance quite a bit, to the point that you need near-pro abilities to compensate.

I get that the braking becomes that much more difficult/important but I find it surprising how close the lap times vs the 3RS are on GP tracks. Is the apex speed that much worse in the 2RS or does it just represent the margin of error driven by the speed?

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

Same tire footprint, same basic suspension geometry, different shocks tuning and different weight balance. I gathered they should more or less have the same minimum speed in corners. 

There is more torque in the 2RS for acceleration out of corners there is no denying that, and also the advantage of a higher terminal speed before the next braking zone. 

But that's where the 2 cars differs entering braking zones. If I consider the 3RS is wearing PCCB, then both cars will be having 410mm front and 390mm rear rotors. 

3RS is lighter, so it can brake 'faster', but the 2RS has slightly more weight in the back so the rear brakes are utilized a bit more to sort of even it out. Major difference is 2RS needs to shed a lot more speed entering corners as compared to a 3RS. It just simply spend more time braking and start at a earlier point on the track. Rubberbanding so to speak. I disappear in front of TRAKCAR at corner exits and he gets right back on my ass at the next corner. 

A 3RS I feel is quite balanced, it doesn't mind being 'chunk' around the track, I feel like to do the same with a 2RS means having quicker reflexes as stuff is just happening faster. For pros it's easier for them to extra the max out of the 2RS, especially on corner exits, they can mash the throttle earlier to extract that last little bit of traction using the torque advantage and getting a even bigger speed advantage on the straights.

It's like the reverse of how I feel when I lap my Clubsport against street cars, say a GT3RS.  I get left in the dust on straights but I can close right in at braking and with slicks I am entering, carrying more speed in corners and have a bit more speed on exits. I might get passed again on the next straight but eventually the advantage sticks and the other car is a goner.

For most mortals, I think they will get similar lap times using either cars on a typical track. Talent is the limiting factor. 

Comes right back to the Porsche racing philosophy, advantage in exiting corners, not the terminal velocity at end of straights. And also the old saying, any monkey can go really fast on a straight, it takes zero skills, it's the corners that separate the pack. 

DaveGordon:

Fascinating to read this stuff. I find the 3RS quite intuitive, in that it flows well; the power is in balance with the cornering and braking abilities. Sounds like the 2RS changed this balance quite a bit, to the point that you need near-pro abilities to compensate.

Agree, highly interesting to hear you guys’ verdict. Didn’t expect such an outcome, but it is perfectly understandable.

At least it makes GT3 RS owners feel better... 

 

At least it makes GT3 RS owners feel better... 

Got to grasp at those staws 

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

RC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StdN8oeV5KM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KW_kcaHtpQ

The extra power of the GT2 RS doesn't help much on certain tracks...unless, like Whoopsie said, you know how to brake late...very late.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

 

That Sebastien Vittel was at the two last Ring events I attended. He is very fast. 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

In a GT2RS, is there any turbo lag exiting corners. If so, what do you do to overcome the lag? 
 

BTW, even though I don’t track my RS, without a doubt it’s the most fun car I have ever owned.

--

When you're going through hell.....keep going.

nberry:

In a GT2RS, is there any turbo lag exiting corners. If so, what do you do to overcome the lag? 
 

BTW, even though I don’t track my RS, without a doubt it’s the most fun car I have ever owned.

--

 

When you're going through hell.....keep going.

 

Would you believe me if I tell you the answer is nein?

Not on the street, not on the Ring, not on the GP track nor my track.

The only time I did experienced a little bit was my fault, I took a corner in 3rd instead of 2nd in manual mode and let the rpm fell below 2000rpm. If properly driven or leave the pdk in auto mode, the turbos are properly energized at all time.

Whoopsy:

nberry:

In a GT2RS, is there any turbo lag exiting corners. If so, what do you do to overcome the lag? 
 

BTW, even though I don’t track my RS, without a doubt it’s the most fun car I have ever owned.

--

 

When you're going through hell.....keep going.

 

 

Would you believe me if I tell you the answer is nein?

Not on the street, not on the Ring, not on the GP track nor my track.

The only time I did experienced a little bit was my fault, I took a corner in 3rd instead of 2nd in manual mode and let the rpm fell below 2000rpm. If properly driven or leave the pdk in auto mode, the turbos are properly energized at all time.

 

 The reality is most of these cars are beyond our driving abilities. Yet, we buy them. WHY??????? In my case it's because they are fun to drive and make me a better driver. I feel the car in the steering wheel, throttle, tires and suspension. It communicates to me when I'm not in sync with the car which is often. 

When you're going through hell.....keep going.

Whoopsy:

Same tire footprint, same basic suspension geometry, different shocks tuning and different weight balance. I gathered they should more or less have the same minimum speed in corners. 

There is more torque in the 2RS for acceleration out of corners there is no denying that, and also the advantage of a higher terminal speed before the next braking zone. 

But that's where the 2 cars differs entering braking zones. If I consider the 3RS is wearing PCCB, then both cars will be having 410mm front and 390mm rear rotors. 

3RS is lighter, so it can brake 'faster', but the 2RS has slightly more weight in the back so the rear brakes are utilized a bit more to sort of even it out. Major difference is 2RS needs to shed a lot more speed entering corners as compared to a 3RS. It just simply spend more time braking and start at a earlier point on the track. Rubberbanding so to speak. I disappear in front of TRAKCAR at corner exits and he gets right back on my ass at the next corner. 

A 3RS I feel is quite balanced, it doesn't mind being 'chunk' around the track, I feel like to do the same with a 2RS means having quicker reflexes as stuff is just happening faster. For pros it's easier for them to extra the max out of the 2RS, especially on corner exits, they can mash the throttle earlier to extract that last little bit of traction using the torque advantage and getting a even bigger speed advantage on the straights.

It's like the reverse of how I feel when I lap my Clubsport against street cars, say a GT3RS.  I get left in the dust on straights but I can close right in at braking and with slicks I am entering, carrying more speed in corners and have a bit more speed on exits. I might get passed again on the next straight but eventually the advantage sticks and the other car is a goner.

For most mortals, I think they will get similar lap times using either cars on a typical track. Talent is the limiting factor. 

Comes right back to the Porsche racing philosophy, advantage in exiting corners, not the terminal velocity at end of straights. And also the old saying, any monkey can go really fast on a straight, it takes zero skills, it's the corners that separate the pack. 

I would suspect that for most of us that are at least decent drivers, "relatively" underpowered cars that have more handling and braking than power are more fun than overpowered cars on the track. They also make you a better driver. Having a car where your corner entrance is less harried allows you to have more fun playing with the edge during the corner. As Whoopsy says, it's the corners that are fun, not the straight where all you're doing is taking the time to make sure the car is working right, getting a breather and maybe reading the paper for a few seconds. 

I haven't driven the GT2RS on the track but I"ve certainly driven cars like it. They are exilarating for a while but they are also exhausting. After the initial thrill wears off they are a lot of work. I go to the track for enjoyment, pros go to the track for work. The GT2RS is more a work tool, fast but it's work. The GT3RS is more of a fun tool, capable, a little more chuckable and more fun. 

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

2020 - Pikes Peak International Hill Climb

Two Porsches claimed division wins, giving the automaker nearly 30 total victories at America’s Mountain.

3rd place - David Donner - 9:36.559 - #000 - 2019 Porsche GT2 RS Clubsport - Onboard Video

5th place - Jeff Zwart - 9:43.921 - #11 - 2019 Porsche 935 - Onboard Video

16th - Blake Williams - 10:52.622 - #22 - 2018 Porsche GT4 Clubsport - Onboard Video

DNF - David Donohue - DNF - #911 - 2019 Porsche GT2 RS Clubsport

PIKE PEAK INT'L HILL CLIMB RACE

Phenomenal pictures, thanks for posting Top! 

Agreed, thanks for posting.  It's amazing how close Donner came to winning outright.

Jeff Zwart forgot to turn off the AC.

Topspeed:

Jeff Zwart forgot to turn off the AC.

it actually make less difference than you think.

A/C automatically cuts off when full throttled. It stays on for part throttle but at part throttle it also means you don't require full power.

Hi guys, any suggestions which company to choose in case of GT2 RS tuning in Europe/Germany ? We are considering stage 2 or stage 3 setup and thinking about PP-Performance (as gercollector), 9FF, or mcchip-dkr.

I can definitely recommend mcchip-dkr. We had already 10 cars, including my 991.2 GT3 RS, there. I also know of  a few 991 GT2 RS cars wich were flown in from the US. Danny, the boss did also a lot of business with Manthey Racing already. I never heard of any issues after the tuning.  

mv:

Hi guys, any suggestions which company to choose in case of GT2 RS tuning in Europe/Germany ? We are considering stage 2 or stage 3 setup and thinking about PP-Performance (as gercollector), 9FF, or mcchip-dkr

Have a read of the link below, the standard set up is already on the thermal limit in terms of IAT so this needs to be addressed before turning the wick up. 

http://www.speedhunters.com/2020/04/engineering-991-gt2-rs-225mph-beyond/

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2021 McLaren 765LT incoming 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

mv:

Hi guys, any suggestions which company to choose in case of GT2 RS tuning in Europe/Germany ? We are considering stage 2 or stage 3 setup and thinking about PP-Performance (as gercollector), 9FF, or mcchip-dkr.

Stupid question: Why? There is a reason why Porsche uses a water injection system for the GT2 RS. 

PP Performance does a lot of tuning for Arab owners and hot climates, which means they have a lot of experience under extreme driving conditions. On the other hand, mcchip-dkr is said to develop their software (even the base tunes) by themselves, if true clearly an advantage.

Can't say much about 9ff.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

mv:

Hi guys, any suggestions which company to choose in case of GT2 RS tuning in Europe/Germany ? We are considering stage 2 or stage 3 setup and thinking about PP-Performance (as gercollector), 9FF, or mcchip-dkr.

Stupid question: Why? There is a reason why Porsche uses a water injection system for the GT2 RS. 

PP Performance does a lot of tuning for Arab owners and hot climates, which means they have a lot of experience under extreme driving conditions. On the other hand, mcchip-dkr is said to develop their software (even the base tunes) by themselves, if true clearly an advantage.

Can't say much about 9ff.

Porsche 911 GT2 RS tweaked by Manthey Racing...   

...turn up the volume! 

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SrKLK9V6lY

...keep in mind that Manthey Racing is owned by Porsche!  

Free bonus: me and Gnil are in that video 

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1