Crown

Whoopsy:

That's a pretty amazing feat, the ultimate stress test, repeated high drain and high charge over 24hrs.

And peak ambient temperature was 42 degrees.

The speed is between 195-215km/hr, say 205km/hr on average. That's almost 17hrs of driving. 

Using the charge curve of my e-Tron as a baseline, the charging will be most efficient and quick from 'empty' to around 75%-80% as it is at pretty much peak charging speed, so I do not think Porsche recharged the battery to full during each 'pit stop', probably stop at 75%-80% And I believe they come back to charge around 10%. 

Porsche hasn't release any details on how long each charging stop is, but I think I will take an educated guess. Say an hour stop each, that makes up the 7 hrs of charging time, they start off with a full charge, so that makes it 8 segments. An hour recharge every 2 hours of driving. So ~410km per stint. The first stint last longer simply because it has 100% charge and the last stint they can really drain the battery all the way down to get some extra distance.

Perhaps about 65kw for ~400km, sounds about right at such high speed. 

Regardless, it showcase Porsche's next generation 800V system. It can sustain repeated high drain scenarios and also the much quicker recharge ability.

Tesla's 400V system has no hope of even coming close to this distance record. 

 

Charging stations installed at Nardo. 

Cable looks pretty thin, so not the liquid cooled ones like Tesla's Supercharger V3. Those 250kw Tesla chargers needed to pump 625A. A equivalent 800V stations only needs to pump half of that. Don't think these are even 250kw chargers. My guess is that they are 150kw, less than 200A current. 

 

This look really good, but I doubt "65kw for ~400km" at this speed. Consumption will likely be 2x or 3x unless there is some unknown magic

Well the Taycan do have a 2-speed gearbox and they are doing the distance record at ~205km/hr instead of max speed which is 250km/hr, so not running the motors at full capacity. Electric motor loses efficiency running at max or close to max anyway. 

I thought it was odd for the speed used, but then again Porsche has a boat loads of engineers calculating the most efficient speed.

I could be off still on the consumption, as Porsche didn't release any numbers concerning those and I am just taking a guess. But I doubt they will use the whole 90-95kw pack for each run, the last 15-20% of a pack are charged at much reduced rate and isn't time efficient. 

Unless of course they stopped more times but shorter charging period, say 30-40mins each, which could also be the case with high speed charging. 

Whoopsy:

Porsche hasn't release any details on how long each charging stop is, but I think I will take an educated guess. Say an hour stop each, that makes up the 7 hrs of charging time, they start off with a full charge, so that makes it 8 segments. An hour recharge every 2 hours of driving. So ~410km per stint. The first stint last longer simply because it has 100% charge and the last stint they can really drain the battery all the way down to get some extra distance.

Perhaps about 65kw for ~400km, sounds about right at such high speed. 

There is no way that the car will get 400km on a charge at those speeds. It's about physics and the 2-geared box doesn't matter even if it improves efficiency a few percentages.

My educated guess is that they had about 25 charging stops give or take. Each stint around 150km. I'm pretty sure those chargers are 350kW and that Porsche pulled 250kW minimum in the SoC-window where they can get optimal charging speed. Maybe this is between 10-80%. A 95kWh battery pack (if this is correct) probably have a usable capacity of about 85kWh. Filling up that 85kWh pack with 250kW charge speed between 10-80% would take about 15 minutes. This means they drive about 45 minutes, charge 15 minutes and then repeat.

Pretty impressive all in all and this will be a fab car! Still have my deposit on one so we'll see how this will end up  

lukestern:

Whoopsy:

Porsche hasn't release any details on how long each charging stop is, but I think I will take an educated guess. Say an hour stop each, that makes up the 7 hrs of charging time, they start off with a full charge, so that makes it 8 segments. An hour recharge every 2 hours of driving. So ~410km per stint. The first stint last longer simply because it has 100% charge and the last stint they can really drain the battery all the way down to get some extra distance.

Perhaps about 65kw for ~400km, sounds about right at such high speed. 

There is no way that the car will get 400km on a charge at those speeds. It's about physics and the 2-geared box doesn't matter even if it improves efficiency a few percentages.

My educated guess is that they had about 25 charging stops give or take. Each stint around 150km. I'm pretty sure those chargers are 350kW and that Porsche pulled 250kW minimum in the SoC-window where they can get optimal charging speed. Maybe this is between 10-80%. A 95kWh battery pack (if this is correct) probably have a usable capacity of about 85kWh. Filling up that 85kWh pack with 250kW charge speed between 10-80% would take about 15 minutes. This means they drive about 45 minutes, charge 15 minutes and then repeat.

Pretty impressive all in all and this will be a fab car! Still have my deposit on one so we'll see how this will end up  

Those should be 250kw chargers. 350kw should still be in prototype stage. 

https://electrek.co/2019/07/17/porsche-taycan-250-kw-charging-launch-promised-350-kw/

Dumping 60kw from a 250kw charger at peak optimal is ~15mins. Spot on. 

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

JR-550:

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

Very nice. Not something from a science-fiction movie but a refined version of what people know and like 

It does look very nice, except for the sport chrono clock 

I don’t understand the need to make it look even less well integrated into the dash than the current one.  Thank goodness it will surely be an option.

Agree with you the sport chrono clock looks a bit strange, did you notice the time is 9:11.

I didn’t notice that, nice touch.

it will look great in and out and completely in line with the full hightech EV stuff.

the competition can start to question the product they have currently.

I need to find a charger plug in the basement

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

haha, already upgraded my electrical connection at home so I charge at full power

JR-550:

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

First time a manufacturer integrates Apple music into their entertainment system, this is not CarPlay. 

Porsche has strengthened their ties to Apple, maybe a sign for more future collaboration? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

JR-550:

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

Looks great at first glance, but I would have loved to see something more deviating from the 911. This solution is not well executed with the screens that get hidden behind the steering wheel. I had this same issue on a recent drive with a Carrera S 992. You have to move your head looking through the steering wheel which is not very smart. And it would imo have been better if they just skipped the Sport Chrono watch on the dash.

The infotainment screen is also far away and too low placed from the driver. You have to lean forward or stretch your arm and look down to use it and this is just not a good ergonomic solution. Form doesn't follow function unfortunately and this to me is just a sign that Porsche is too stuck with how things always been and the "heritage" is prio 1. But I'm sure that people who are used to this layout will not even reflect over this fact. For me coming from Tesla it will be a huge step down when it comes to infotainment and instrument layout if I buy a Taycan next year...

JR-550:

Agree with you the sport chrono clock looks a bit strange, did you notice the time is 9:11.

I think they have always done that with press photos including the sport chrono. 
What is it with this sport chrono clock on top of the dashboard? For generations it has been this awkward design, I think I never heard anybody being enthusiastic about it, but they keep including it... 

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Yeah, it is smarter to integrate everything into a big ass iPad, so you aren't distracted at all when operating this thing by touch only.  I love tech but certain things need to be operated by real buttons in a car, for the safety of the driver and his passengers.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Agree with Lukestern about looking for something that deviated a bit more from the 911.   I think Tesla’s dash is too simple, but this one is too traditional. It also gives the signal that the exterior design may not be as exciting as I had hoped. 

RC:

Yeah, it is smarter to integrate everything into a big ass iPad, so you aren't distracted at all when operating this thing by touch only.  I love tech but certain things need to be operated by real buttons in a car, for the safety of the driver and his passengers.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. But my beef was more with the awkward design of the "wart".

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

the-missile:

it will look great in and out and completely in line with the full hightech EV stuff.

the competition can start to question the product they have currently.

I need to find a charger plug in the basement

Well there isn't any competition.

Taycan currently sits at the top of the food chain, displacing Tesla Model S as the go-to for luxury premium EV sedan. Until Mercedes, BMW, etc start doing one, that space is Porsche's only. Or if Bentley, Rolls Royce start doing a EV sedan, then the top end will change hands. 

lukestern:

JR-550:

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

Looks great at first glance, but I would have loved to see something more deviating from the 911. This solution is not well executed with the screens that get hidden behind the steering wheel. I had this same issue on a recent drive with a Carrera S 992. You have to move your head looking through the steering wheel which is not very smart. And it would imo have been better if they just skipped the Sport Chrono watch on the dash.

The infotainment screen is also far away and too low placed from the driver. You have to lean forward or stretch your arm and look down to use it and this is just not a good ergonomic solution. Form doesn't follow function unfortunately and this to me is just a sign that Porsche is too stuck with how things always been and the "heritage" is prio 1. But I'm sure that people who are used to this layout will not even reflect over this fact. For me coming from Tesla it will be a huge step down when it comes to infotainment and instrument layout if I buy a Taycan next year...

Form left function a long times ago when out of nowhere car manufacturers start putting dangerous touch screens in cars. It really is pointless to use touch screens. There is no benefits except to get 'in' with the smartphone crowd. I know designers wanted to create a 'clean look' interior, but the solution is not a touch screen, they just have to copy the excellent first generation BMW iDrive controller.

It's a no-look one hand 'button'. The controller is big enough one doesn't need to look down nor stretch to find it, and it's not touch sensitive so no accidental input. 8 directional inputs plus press and rotate left and right, enough function to control everything on the menu. 

Can't wait till governments around the world finally wake up and ban dangerous touch screens in automobile. 

I'd argue that the Taycan will be way more expensive than a P100D. But beside wonderful cars Tesla also created it's own and perfect customer hell, which more than upsets a lot of owners these days

Whoopsy:

 

Can't wait till governments around the world finally wake up and ban dangerous touch screens in automobile. 

+1

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I love my 911, have never been in a Tesla and suffer from early onset old man-itis, generally disliking new tech.  However this thread should be:

Porsche Mission E - the end of Porsche?

Perhaps a Churchillian beginning of the end.

The Taycan may be fantastic, handle like a GT3 and recharge in 2 minutes.  It won't matter.  With electric cars and GPS, speed limits will be automatically enforced and everybody will have sub 4 second 0-100kph times for that one highway on ramp you need it.  All cars will be virtually silent, so it will be very hard to impress teenagers by revving your motor in Knightsbridge.  Young people don't car about cars, as evidenced by the number seeking drivers licenses.  With self driving, shared vehicles, or rent by the hour services we're on the verge of a titanic shift, conceptually similar to the shift from horses to horseless carriages. (The convenience, noise and pollution arguments are even similar.)  VW may have a pile of money and the Germans may be investing like crazy.  They probably won't survive.  A dozen years ago Apple didn't make phones and nobody had heard of an app.  The biggest vehicle supplier in 20 years is likely a company that doesn't exist, but will buy generic sleds and rent them out by the trip, day or like to a population that won't miss the hassles of driving.  A couple of car manufacturers will survive selling status symbols or fun toys, just like there are still horse breeders.  This leaves room for Rolls and a couple of sports car brands who can live off their glory days.  Ferrari, Morgan, Lotus, Lamborghini.  Ironically in this context the Cayenne kills Porsche as it is now seen as a rich person's SUV brand, not a LeMans champion.

Is anyone here a motorcycle rider; I'm sure there are similar arguments on Ducati and Harley Davidson forums.

Whoopsy:

lukestern:

JR-550:

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

Looks great at first glance, but I would have loved to see something more deviating from the 911. This solution is not well executed with the screens that get hidden behind the steering wheel. I had this same issue on a recent drive with a Carrera S 992. You have to move your head looking through the steering wheel which is not very smart. And it would imo have been better if they just skipped the Sport Chrono watch on the dash.

The infotainment screen is also far away and too low placed from the driver. You have to lean forward or stretch your arm and look down to use it and this is just not a good ergonomic solution. Form doesn't follow function unfortunately and this to me is just a sign that Porsche is too stuck with how things always been and the "heritage" is prio 1. But I'm sure that people who are used to this layout will not even reflect over this fact. For me coming from Tesla it will be a huge step down when it comes to infotainment and instrument layout if I buy a Taycan next year...

 

Form left function a long times ago when out of nowhere car manufacturers start putting dangerous touch screens in cars. It really is pointless to use touch screens. There is no benefits except to get 'in' with the smartphone crowd. I know designers wanted to create a 'clean look' interior, but the solution is not a touch screen, they just have to copy the excellent first generation BMW iDrive controller.

It's a no-look one hand 'button'. The controller is big enough one doesn't need to look down nor stretch to find it, and it's not touch sensitive so no accidental input. 8 directional inputs plus press and rotate left and right, enough function to control everything on the menu. 

Can't wait till governments around the world finally wake up and ban dangerous touch screens in automobile. 

Touch screens are an interim solution as automakers transition to more gesture and voice controls for minor control functions.  One major issue with automotive cockpit design is the need to bridge significant age differences.  Fewer twenty year olds will purchase a Taycan compared with seventy year olds and accommodations must be made for the differing technical abilities.  Older clients require interfaces that are reminiscent of existing product, regardless of the technical underpinnings.  After all, a BEV is really no different than a hybrid, petrol, diesel, or CNG fueled automobile.  It is nothing more than another source of energy to propel the car.  That's something that tends to be lost on the EV acolytes.  

Not disputing you, but where do you get your information that fewer 20-year-olds will purchase Taycans as compared to 70-year-olds?

waiting for PDK:

I love my 911, have never been in a Tesla and suffer from early onset old man-itis, generally disliking new tech.  However this thread should be:

Porsche Mission E - the end of Porsche?

Perhaps a Churchillian beginning of the end.

The Taycan may be fantastic, handle like a GT3 and recharge in 2 minutes.  It won't matter.  With electric cars and GPS, speed limits will be automatically enforced and everybody will have sub 4 second 0-100kph times for that one highway on ramp you need it.  All cars will be virtually silent, so it will be very hard to impress teenagers by revving your motor in Knightsbridge.  Young people don't car about cars, as evidenced by the number seeking drivers licenses.  With self driving, shared vehicles, or rent by the hour services we're on the verge of a titanic shift, conceptually similar to the shift from horses to horseless carriages. (The convenience, noise and pollution arguments are even similar.)  VW may have a pile of money and the Germans may be investing like crazy.  They probably won't survive.  A dozen years ago Apple didn't make phones and nobody had heard of an app.  The biggest vehicle supplier in 20 years is likely a company that doesn't exist, but will buy generic sleds and rent them out by the trip, day or like to a population that won't miss the hassles of driving.  A couple of car manufacturers will survive selling status symbols or fun toys, just like there are still horse breeders.  This leaves room for Rolls and a couple of sports car brands who can live off their glory days.  Ferrari, Morgan, Lotus, Lamborghini.  Ironically in this context the Cayenne kills Porsche as it is now seen as a rich person's SUV brand, not a LeMans champion.

Is anyone here a motorcycle rider; I'm sure there are similar arguments on Ducati and Harley Davidson forums.

What is the product diffusion rate for EVs?  That's an essential point in your argument.  On the road today, in many parts of the United States, exist cars over the age of twenty or twenty-five years of age.  Unless there is legislation banning, or phasing out, the internal combustion automobile over a set period of time, your dystopian view won't occur in the near term.  In the EU and China, however, your viewpoint does hold some merit and consideration as major city centers are phasing in the banning of older vehicles.  

The Apple iPhone won in the marketplace against the incumbents because it was a complete product, superior to the then offerings by Nokia, Motorola, and Ericsson.  Jobs had initially worked with Motorola to develop an iPod/cellphone integration product.  The product didn't meet Jobs' high expectations and he tasked Apple with developing a technology convergence product combining a music player, Internet browser, email reader, and cellphone.  It won in the marketplace because it was better than the existing products.  The same can't be said about today's EVs, while coming close to the overall packaging efficiencies of the internal combustion engine, it still has shortcomings that limit macro-acceptance amongst all potential customers.  That will be resolved over time and this is what allows other automakers to transition to EVs.

Nissan was a first-mover in this space along with Tesla.  Tesla may maintain an early lead based solely on name recognition but internal issues within the company limits it appeal to the vast majority of market participants who would rather make a capital purchase from a known, and financially-viable, automaker.  Nissan too is financially stricken and its longterm outlook is questionable.  Toyota and Volkswagen are in enviable positions holding large cash balances and deep R&D abilities.  For many years, Volkswagen Group's expenditures in R&D was one to the greatest amongst all multi-national corporations.  Toyota too has significant R&D assets starting with deep research in hybrids, which is readily transferrable to EVs.  

General Motors is another potential dominant player in the EV market.  Ford is licensing technology, i.e., MEB, from Volkswagen.  This move is extremely shrewd for Volkswagen as production volume will quickly drive EV component costs to parity, and below, with ICEs.  Tesla, of course, doesn't have the scale advantages and is wedded to a particular set of technologies for battery pack developments.  This is one of the pitfalls of vertical integration, but Musk felt it was necessary to emulate the business Model of Henry Ford and the Model T.  What worked over a hundred years ago does not work today as flexibility of competition amongst suppliers provide cost advantages to the OEM.  

Winners: Toyota, Volkswagen Group, and General Motors. Mercedes and BMW will remain niche players.

Losers: Nissan, Mazda, Jaguar, and FCA.

Neutral: PSA, Tesla, and Ford.

Wonderbar:

Not disputing you, but where do you get your information that fewer 20-year-olds will purchase Taycans as compared to 70-year-olds?

Disposal income and current Porsche ownership demographics.  Should have included statistical data:   https://www.statista.com/statistics/369007/people-living-in-households-that-own-a-porsche-usa/

schmoell:

I'd argue that the Taycan will be way more expensive than a P100D. But beside wonderful cars Tesla also created it's own and perfect customer hell, which more than upsets a lot of owners these days

Exactly my point.

Imagine in a alternate universe where Royce Rolls, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW, etc doesn't exists. The top premium car brand is Cadillac. People with disposable income, ranging from middle class to billionaires haven no choice but to buy Cadillacs if they want a luxury premium car. That's exactly what's happening in the EV market before, Tesla was the only premium one available. The top 1%, 10% or whatever are forced to buy Tesla if they want a 'luxury' EV. 

Now those same people can move up the ladder and buy a Porsche instead, or stay in the same segment and choose Audi or Jaguar, or Mercedes.

CGX car nut:

Whoopsy:

lukestern:

JR-550:

Here is a picture of the Taycan dashboard, looks nice.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/19/porsche-is-integrating-apple-music-into-the-all-electric-taycan/

Looks great at first glance, but I would have loved to see something more deviating from the 911. This solution is not well executed with the screens that get hidden behind the steering wheel. I had this same issue on a recent drive with a Carrera S 992. You have to move your head looking through the steering wheel which is not very smart. And it would imo have been better if they just skipped the Sport Chrono watch on the dash.

The infotainment screen is also far away and too low placed from the driver. You have to lean forward or stretch your arm and look down to use it and this is just not a good ergonomic solution. Form doesn't follow function unfortunately and this to me is just a sign that Porsche is too stuck with how things always been and the "heritage" is prio 1. But I'm sure that people who are used to this layout will not even reflect over this fact. For me coming from Tesla it will be a huge step down when it comes to infotainment and instrument layout if I buy a Taycan next year...

 

Form left function a long times ago when out of nowhere car manufacturers start putting dangerous touch screens in cars. It really is pointless to use touch screens. There is no benefits except to get 'in' with the smartphone crowd. I know designers wanted to create a 'clean look' interior, but the solution is not a touch screen, they just have to copy the excellent first generation BMW iDrive controller.

It's a no-look one hand 'button'. The controller is big enough one doesn't need to look down nor stretch to find it, and it's not touch sensitive so no accidental input. 8 directional inputs plus press and rotate left and right, enough function to control everything on the menu. 

Can't wait till governments around the world finally wake up and ban dangerous touch screens in automobile. 

Touch screens are an interim solution as automakers transition to more gesture and voice controls for minor control functions.  One major issue with automotive cockpit design is the need to bridge significant age differences.  Fewer twenty year olds will purchase a Taycan compared with seventy year olds and accommodations must be made for the differing technical abilities.  Older clients require interfaces that are reminiscent of existing product, regardless of the technical underpinnings.  After all, a BEV is really no different than a hybrid, petrol, diesel, or CNG fueled automobile.  It is nothing more than another source of energy to propel the car.  That's something that tends to be lost on the EV acolytes.  

Those 2 are even worse choices for automotive applications. 

Humans cannot split attention between speaking and driving. Try carry on a normal conversation on the phone while driving, your speaking capacity drops quite a percentage as your brain struggles to juggle speech processing and spacial awareness. Either you lose track of the road ahead or spend a lot of time pausing the conversation while negotiating the road. You cannot pause a spoken command, the breaks in-between will screw up the speech recognition and basically fucked up what you want the car to do. 

Gesturing is another brain processing splitting moves. Since the car is stupid, you cannot pause the gesture, you can't stop mid gesture and continue after, you have start over the same move. Not to mention remembering every moves. 

The iDrive controller usage can be paused, it will wait for you to input the next command. Say you are entering addresses for the navigation, you scroll to the alphabets and keep clicking the correct ones, then you need a break, say needed 2 hands to steer or something, the cursor STAYS exactly where you left it and wait for you to input the next character, there is no mix up no start over. It doesn't even need your attention, everyone knows the alphabets, every knows a N comes after a M, so you do't even need to look, just one flick of your wrist and that one click you know the cursor has landed on N from M. 

The input screen also don't move around trying to evade your 'clicks' like a touch screen. Get on a bumpy road, and try to touch a screen button. That button will be one slippery bastard that simply do not want to be touched. 

Buttons, click wheels are perfect in automobile applications, trying to substitute them with touch screens, speech recognition and gestures is like trying to reinvent the wheel with squares and triangles. STUPID. 

+1

+1