Crown

Grant, you understand engine design, I don't - but I'll try my best. Maybe someone can jump in and provide better explanations

• in total 7 throttle valves; 3 per cylinder bank plus a common one controlled by 3 motors
• steel exhaust system instead of titan 
• secondary air pump to add air to the exhaust stream to meet regulations
• OPF has before and after pressure sensors
• "the OPF is like a cork in the exhaust stream" 
   

Wow - sounds very complex and difficult to override.  Thanks for posting!!

We had secondary pumps and ports in the US version of 993 and they became clogged often - no fun :-(
--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

Sounds pretty challenging - but I think Dundon and others are already planning to give a try 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

That's what most people I talked to think (tuner etc). But it's probably too early for a final verdict. We'll see - but my feeling is, that it doesn't get any better for NA engines, turbos might be different. Maybe it's time to get a CUP car - even with all the hassle

schmoell:

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

That's what most people I talked to think (tuner etc). But it's probably too early for a final verdict. We'll see - but my feeling is, that it doesn't get any better for NA engines, turbos might be different. Maybe it's time to get a CUP car - even with all the hassle

Or just stick with the pre-OPF 991's of course...

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Grant:

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

Sounds pretty challenging - but I think Dundon and others are already planning to give a try 

They're luring me into their intake system 

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

991 is easy to modify exhaust wise.

992 is nightmare with electric actuated valve which will connected straight to the ECU...

we are tight with the shitty sound I think and quiet for some time till they propose to touch the ECU which will be a NO NO

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Porker:

They're luring me into their intake system 

Bored of passing noise tests already?

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

DaveGordon:

Porker:

They're luring me into their intake system 

Bored of passing noise tests already?

I can't help myself!

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Porker:

DaveGordon:

Porker:

They're luring me into their intake system 

Bored of passing noise tests already?

I can't help myself!

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

schmoell:

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

That's what most people I talked to think (tuner etc). But it's probably too early for a final verdict. We'll see - but my feeling is, that it doesn't get any better for NA engines, turbos might be different. Maybe it's time to get a CUP car - even with all the hassle

For tuners, the whole particulate filter situation is a nightmare. Also the fact that flap controlled exhaust systems cannot be louder anymore than in their original state (with the flaps closed). No kidding. So car manufacturers have to find a way to "create" the sound through frequency changes and interior noise generation. Sad but true.

Meaning: All new cars, especially those certified for the EU, will sound like crap.  The big problem here: For some car manufacturers, it would be too expensive to create different models for different markets, so particulate filters could become a reality for other markets, incl. the US market, as well.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Porker:

DaveGordon:

Porker:

They're luring me into their intake system 

Bored of passing noise tests already?

I can't help myself!

schmoell:

JP, who owns German a tuning company and runs a 1,7mil subs YT channel, published a video where he "builds" his own GT3 RS - sort of a Porsche home story for car addicts. The more interesting part is when he explain the new ITB and OPF. Here is an screenshot from that video showing the OPF (green) and cat (blue). Astonishing that the car has a sound at all.

You find the video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLPTZSw2TZg ; engine talk starts at around 18:30 . Sorry, German only

JP said the OPF is like a cork in the ass.

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Porker:

Grant:

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

Sounds pretty challenging - but I think Dundon and others are already planning to give a try 

They're luring me into their intake system 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

Whoopsy:

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

Nick, what's your feeling about DxxxON and this claimed perf?

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

Nick, what's your feeling about DxxxON and this claimed perf?

If you want my honest opinion.

I couldn't have care less. 

Modern cars are so powerful already that whatever minuscule gains they can find is pointless. What's another 15HP in a 500HP car? Nothing. 

The other day I drove back to back between a normal Turbo S and my Turbo S Exclusive. On paper the Exclusive has 27HP more, I can't feel one iota difference. I can, however, feel the difference between the 607HP Exclusive and the 700HP GT2RS. Heck, the 700HP GT2RS and the 887HP 918 almost feel the same to me. 

Perhaps on a track that little bit of extra HP might show up, but driver skills can wiped that bit cleaned off. If a pro drives the old 385HP GT4 Clubsport and I in the new 420HP GT4 Clubsport, pretty sure I will need more than those extra 35HP to make a difference. On paper I might go faster on the straights, but he could have taken the corner faster and exit faster and that advantage at the end of the straight disappears, very quickly.

Whoopsy:

 

If you want my honest opinion.

I couldn't have care less. 

Modern cars are so powerful already that whatever minuscule gains they can find is pointless. What's another 15HP in a 500HP car? Nothing. 

The other day I drove back to back between a normal Turbo S and my Turbo S Exclusive. On paper the Exclusive has 27HP more, I can't feel one iota difference. I can, however, feel the difference between the 607HP Exclusive and the 700HP GT2RS. Heck, the 700HP GT2RS and the 887HP 918 almost feel the same to me. 

Perhaps on a track that little bit of extra HP might show up, but driver skills can wiped that bit cleaned off. If a pro drives the old 385HP GT4 Clubsport and I in the new 420HP GT4 Clubsport, pretty sure I will need more than those extra 35HP to make a difference. On paper I might go faster on the straights, but he could have taken the corner faster and exit faster and that advantage at the end of the straight disappears, very quickly.

what is buzzing my Engineer head is the massive hp raise claim. there is no argument in regards to driver capabilities but I have some concern about a bunch of guys claiming they can squeeze 6-7% hp from these top of the range flat 6. anyway, thanks for your feedback.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Whoopsy:

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

Nick, what's your feeling about DxxxON and this claimed perf?

 

If you want my honest opinion.

I couldn't have care less. 

Modern cars are so powerful already that whatever minuscule gains they can find is pointless. What's another 15HP in a 500HP car? Nothing. 

The other day I drove back to back between a normal Turbo S and my Turbo S Exclusive. On paper the Exclusive has 27HP more, I can't feel one iota difference. I can, however, feel the difference between the 607HP Exclusive and the 700HP GT2RS. Heck, the 700HP GT2RS and the 887HP 918 almost feel the same to me. 

Perhaps on a track that little bit of extra HP might show up, but driver skills can wiped that bit cleaned off. If a pro drives the old 385HP GT4 Clubsport and I in the new 420HP GT4 Clubsport, pretty sure I will need more than those extra 35HP to make a difference. On paper I might go faster on the straights, but he could have taken the corner faster and exit faster and that advantage at the end of the straight disappears, very quickly.

spot on ! A chassis set up can make a bigger difference that 30 HP - heck even specification with or without RWS , PCCB etc gives you already a different feel ! I heard that Mk2 RS with filter sounds even deeper and t4 surely better to my ears...

Whoopsy:

Porker:

Grant:

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

Sounds pretty challenging - but I think Dundon and others are already planning to give a try 

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

I'm relatively ok now, I have their 'silent' muffler fitted, which takes the edge of, in combination with these I'm now good at the Ring and Spa! 

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Porker:

Whoopsy:

Porker:

Grant:

Porker:

This would mean the OPF is difficult/impossible to take out with aftermarket systems? I'd think it's the first thing I'd want to do on a 992. 

Sounds pretty challenging - but I think Dundon and others are already planning to give a try 

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

I'm relatively ok now, I have their 'silent' muffler fitted, which takes the edge of, in combination with these I'm now good at the Ring and Spa! 

 

Is that a 2 way exit? Down and back?

Only down!

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

 

If you want my honest opinion.

I couldn't have care less. 

Modern cars are so powerful already that whatever minuscule gains they can find is pointless. What's another 15HP in a 500HP car? Nothing. 

The other day I drove back to back between a normal Turbo S and my Turbo S Exclusive. On paper the Exclusive has 27HP more, I can't feel one iota difference. I can, however, feel the difference between the 607HP Exclusive and the 700HP GT2RS. Heck, the 700HP GT2RS and the 887HP 918 almost feel the same to me. 

Perhaps on a track that little bit of extra HP might show up, but driver skills can wiped that bit cleaned off. If a pro drives the old 385HP GT4 Clubsport and I in the new 420HP GT4 Clubsport, pretty sure I will need more than those extra 35HP to make a difference. On paper I might go faster on the straights, but he could have taken the corner faster and exit faster and that advantage at the end of the straight disappears, very quickly.

what is buzzing my Engineer head is the massive hp raise claim. there is no argument in regards to driver capabilities but I have some concern about a bunch of guys claiming they can squeeze 6-7% hp from these top of the range flat 6. anyway, thanks for your feedback.

On one side, it's a bunch of guys with perhaps $200k budget, probably a lot less. On the other side, it's a multi-billion company with thousands of engineers. 

Porsche knows their engines, their products. They made them in the first place. Of course they know what the limits are and they are not at it. There is a reason why they are not at the limit in the first place. 

The margin is there for various reasons, production tolerance and variance, gasoline quality, ambient weather conditions, supplier quality, etc. We have seen first hand what happened about suppliers with the 991.1 GT3.

6-7% hp variance is really nothing. EU allows 5% variance already from published horsepower claim. The horsepower stated from Porsche is the minimum any engine will make. From the 918 program, every engine is dyno-ed, they have to make at least 608. It's never officially stated or quoted, but the variance from the lowest to the highest is ~13%. Actually most engines are well above the official claimed figure. Porsche has the complete record of each engine but even owners can't access their own engine's dyno sheet. 

Rossi:

schmoell:

JP, who owns German a tuning company and runs a 1,7mil subs YT channel, published a video where he "builds" his own GT3 RS - sort of a Porsche home story for car addicts. The more interesting part is when he explain the new ITB and OPF. Here is an screenshot from that video showing the OPF (green) and cat (blue). Astonishing that the car has a sound at all.

You find the video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLPTZSw2TZg ; engine talk starts at around 18:30 . Sorry, German only

JP said the OPF is like a cork in the ass.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Whoopsy:

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

Nick, what's your feeling about DxxxON and this claimed perf?

 

If you want my honest opinion.

I couldn't have care less. 

Modern cars are so powerful already that whatever minuscule gains they can find is pointless. What's another 15HP in a 500HP car? Nothing. 

The other day I drove back to back between a normal Turbo S and my Turbo S Exclusive. On paper the Exclusive has 27HP more, I can't feel one iota difference. I can, however, feel the difference between the 607HP Exclusive and the 700HP GT2RS. Heck, the 700HP GT2RS and the 887HP 918 almost feel the same to me. 

Perhaps on a track that little bit of extra HP might show up, but driver skills can wiped that bit cleaned off. If a pro drives the old 385HP GT4 Clubsport and I in the new 420HP GT4 Clubsport, pretty sure I will need more than those extra 35HP to make a difference. On paper I might go faster on the straights, but he could have taken the corner faster and exit faster and that advantage at the end of the straight disappears, very quickly.

I am also surprised to see how people, mostly in the US, tune their already powerful cars to 800, 900 or even 1000 hp but it makes no sense whatsoever because these power gains, letting longterm (or even short term) reliability aside, are pointless in speed limited countries. These power figures may be good for the Autobahn but that's it.

In the 0-200 kph speed range and especially in the 0-120 kph speed range, most tuned cars are even slower than their OEM counterparts because the setup has been ruined and/or the traction is much worse due to the increased torque.

A friend from the US recently asked me if I plan to add a supercharger to my Performance. What for? This car is already so fast as it is and adding a supercharger would not only ruin the whole setup, it would not really improve the driving experience, on the contrary. Yes, the car would be faster in the 200 to 325 kph speed range but what for? My favorite roads are country roads, mountain roads, the speeds seldom exceed 100 kph. Makes no sense. Also, reliability would suffer, I would loose the factory warranty and when I want to sell the car, it would be less worth.

Chassis, tires, personal driving skills: The best tuning you ever want and need. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Whoopsy:

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

They're luring me into their intake system 

 

Yeah but you still have to solve your exhaust noise problem still if you want to run the Ring and other tracks

Nick, what's your feeling about DxxxON and this claimed perf?

 

If you want my honest opinion.

I couldn't have care less. 

Modern cars are so powerful already that whatever minuscule gains they can find is pointless. What's another 15HP in a 500HP car? Nothing. 

The other day I drove back to back between a normal Turbo S and my Turbo S Exclusive. On paper the Exclusive has 27HP more, I can't feel one iota difference. I can, however, feel the difference between the 607HP Exclusive and the 700HP GT2RS. Heck, the 700HP GT2RS and the 887HP 918 almost feel the same to me. 

Perhaps on a track that little bit of extra HP might show up, but driver skills can wiped that bit cleaned off. If a pro drives the old 385HP GT4 Clubsport and I in the new 420HP GT4 Clubsport, pretty sure I will need more than those extra 35HP to make a difference. On paper I might go faster on the straights, but he could have taken the corner faster and exit faster and that advantage at the end of the straight disappears, very quickly.

Nick, you’re on a roll. Terrific post! 

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

F   U   N

That is why you do it.

So there is no logic behind it. Just enjoyment :-)

Kobalt:

F   U   N

That is why you do it.

So there is no logic behind it. Just enjoyment :-)

A few months ago, I watched a YouTube video of a GT2 RS owner in the US who tuned his car (over 100+ hp) and went on a drag strip with it. The setup was completely ruined, the car was actually slower than before in the (for a drag strip) important speed range. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Kobalt:

F   U   N

That is why you do it.

So there is no logic behind it. Just enjoyment :-)

A few months ago, I watched a YouTube video of a GT2 RS owner in the US who tuned his car (over 100+ hp) and went on a drag strip with it. The setup was completely ruined, the car was actually slower than before in the (for a drag strip) important speed range. 

any tune on these modern cars is a waste. more when you start touching a Porsche 911 GT which is the company with probably the highest number ratio for Engineers in the car business.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

any tune on these modern cars is a waste. more when you start touching a Porsche 911 GT which is the company with probably the highest number ratio for Engineers in the car business.

I won't modify a NA motor (not enough upside to balance risk/reward equation).  But the right tuner can make far more power/torque with a turbocharged motor than any Porsche engineer who is constrained by emissions, consumption, and marketing concerns.  In particular, I love what E85 can do at $2.09 per gallon (huge octane and motor runs very cool).

I realize that not all jurisdictions are a lax with the rules and inspections as certain states in the US...

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi