Crown

I have ordered the new Cayenne Coupe for September 2023 delivery and I am wandering if the option to take delivery at factory is still an option? (Leipzig?). Previously when I asked he

Any thoughts? 
 

Mark 

Cayenne Turbo, where distances become memories very quickly 

any thoughts?

Cayenne Turbo, where distances become memories very quickly 

I really like the combination :)

I don’t know about Leipzig deliveries, but I’ve heard that there is a backlog for factory delivery in Stuttgart/Zuffenhausen. If your dealer tries to schedule it what date is offered?

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

911tts:

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

I still would prefer the Cayenne Turbo GT but since Porsche doesn't seem to offer it anymore in Europe... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

I don‘t like the extra 300kg for the battery pack and I don‘t like the lack of an instrument binnacle cover, nor the move away from a „real“ rev counter, but otherwise, looks like a decent FL. My current turbo is soon to turn 4 so I am also deliberating on a new one. Will save a bit on gas around town I guess… 

RC:

911tts:

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

I still would prefer the Cayenne Turbo GT but since Porsche doesn't seem to offer it anymore in Europe... 

Thank your wacky EU bureaucrats.  

CGX car nut:

RC:

911tts:

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

I still would prefer the Cayenne Turbo GT but since Porsche doesn't seem to offer it anymore in Europe... 

Thank your wacky EU bureaucrats.  

If Europeans want to save world climate...  This has nothing to do with bureaucrats but people who vote for them. Unfortunately it is either them or voting for the extreme right. I prefer not to indulge people who are racist, anti-semites, bigots, pro-Russia, anti-NATO, anti-West/USA and sexist. I am a conservative but right now, there is no party in Germany which represents me. Still not going to vote for those idiots from AfD.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

CGX car nut:

RC:

911tts:

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

I still would prefer the Cayenne Turbo GT but since Porsche doesn't seem to offer it anymore in Europe... 

Thank your wacky EU bureaucrats.  

If Europeans want to save world climate...  This has nothing to do with bureaucrats but people who vote for them. Unfortunately it is either them or voting for the extreme right. I prefer not to indulge people who are racist, anti-semites, bigots, pro-Russia, anti-NATO, anti-West/USA and sexist. I am a conservative but right now, there is no party in Germany which represents me. Still not going to vote for those idiots from AfD.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

 

That’s precious coming from a citizen of a country that banned carbon free power sources to substitute high polluting lignite.  

CGX car nut:

RC:

CGX car nut:

RC:

911tts:

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

I still would prefer the Cayenne Turbo GT but since Porsche doesn't seem to offer it anymore in Europe... 

Thank your wacky EU bureaucrats.  

If Europeans want to save world climate...  This has nothing to do with bureaucrats but people who vote for them. Unfortunately it is either them or voting for the extreme right. I prefer not to indulge people who are racist, anti-semites, bigots, pro-Russia, anti-NATO, anti-West/USA and sexist. I am a conservative but right now, there is no party in Germany which represents me. Still not going to vote for those idiots from AfD.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

 

That’s precious coming from a citizen of a country that banned carbon free power sources to substitute high polluting lignite.  

Again...I didn't vote for this government but I would never vote for a right wing government, even if they would do some of the stuff I wish a government would do. I have a pretty accurate moral compass and...a brain. 

No extreme party, right or left, would ever get a vote from me. Extremism is the death of a free society.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

CGX car nut:

RC:

CGX car nut:

RC:

911tts:

What is your opinion about new Cayenne Turbo E-Hybrid? The most powerful Cayenne of all time - 739 HP.

I am thinking to order one with GT Package.

I still would prefer the Cayenne Turbo GT but since Porsche doesn't seem to offer it anymore in Europe... 

Thank your wacky EU bureaucrats.  

If Europeans want to save world climate...  This has nothing to do with bureaucrats but people who vote for them. Unfortunately it is either them or voting for the extreme right. I prefer not to indulge people who are racist, anti-semites, bigots, pro-Russia, anti-NATO, anti-West/USA and sexist. I am a conservative but right now, there is no party in Germany which represents me. Still not going to vote for those idiots from AfD.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

 

That’s precious coming from a citizen of a country that banned carbon free power sources to substitute high polluting lignite.  

Priceless. Shut down three nuclear power plants that are CO2 ZERO in the middle of an energy crisis and replace with coal fired power plants…. Shows the climate focus is unfortunately NON SERIOUS. 

I didn't say I agree. Of course this was stupid but they gave their voters what they wanted/promised.

I am a huge democracy fan. In a democracy, I have a choice. I have the choice to vote, the choice to accept and if I wish to not accept and feel bad about something, I have the choice to leave.  This is a concept many of those who always lived in a democracy and never knew something else don't always get, especially the benefits of it. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Cool mate, ain‘t that the truth….

But…. It seems to me the world over that democracy these days is an ever growing leviathan bureaucracy that gets less efficient but at the same time always needs more money. Intentions of it may actually be good, but the cash needs are ravenous…

On a more pertinent note, has anyone seen a review of the new Cayenne turbo??

I cannot find one on youtube, maybe it is too early still...

996FourEss:

Cool mate, ain‘t that the truth….

But…. It seems to me the world over that democracy these days is an ever growing leviathan bureaucracy that gets less efficient but at the same time always needs more money. Intentions of it may actually be good, but the cash needs are ravenous…

Bureaucracy and ideology (of any kind) are the death of democracy. True. Politicians often think that if they get elected, this means they get a free pass to spend as much money as they want for any crap they want. What is even more sad: Many people actually believe their explanations and excuses. 

If I have to listen to people comparing our democracies with the Third Reich or former Soviet Union, I think that many don't have the slightest(!) clue what they are talking about and it not only makes me sad, it worries me a lot.

With conspiracy theories on the rise, people live in their own reality bubble where the accepted truth is only what fits their world view and beliefs. It is actually amazing to see how some people live in their own distorted realities.

My advice for any kid out there: Become a psychologist or psychiatrist, there is big money in this, now more than ever before.   

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

As far as I know French or German democraties are fake democraties.

Let me explain : you vote for someone or a party and they do what they want during 4 to 5 years, expecting to be re-elected.

in Switzerland, if enough people are not ok with a decision (eg. turn off nuclear plant), there can obtain a votation and at the end the people will say yes or no. And they vote 4 times a year on several questions from local issues to national decisions.

This is real democraty !

I remember when sex was safe and motor racing was dangerous...

There are times that elected officials must make decision based on not what their constituents want but what is best for the country. In other words, at times, too much democracy can be bad.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

nberry:

There are times that elected officials must make decision based on not what their constituents want but what is best for the country. In other words, at times, too much democracy can be bad.

Only in your world, and perhaps in Whoopsy’s world too, is a dictatorship best.  

Procup:

As far as I know French or German democraties are fake democraties.

Let me explain : you vote for someone or a party and they do what they want during 4 to 5 years, expecting to be re-elected.

in Switzerland, if enough people are not ok with a decision (eg. turn off nuclear plant), there can obtain a votation and at the end the people will say yes or no. And they vote 4 times a year on several questions from local issues to national decisions.

This is real democraty !

This is called direct democracy and it would be chaos in a country with 83 Mio people. Easy to do in a small country like Switzerland though. 

Also, did you know that often, not even half of the Swiss participate in the direct democracy? Furthermore, many of the changes demanded in direct democracy issues are requested by politicians/organizations, not single voters.

On average, only 45% of the Swiss vote with the direct democracy stuff.

The problem with a direct democracy (this is not a "true" democracy, this is just a different kind of democracy): For populists like Trump for example, a direct democracy would be a god given present. Not a good idea in my opinion, even if you are right...people get elected for 4 years and then do what they want to do.

So while you think the "direct" democracy in Switzerland has advantages, it really doesn't because not many vote, mostly organizations/politicians use that for their own purposes and populists use that for their goals.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

CGX car nut:

nberry:

There are times that elected officials must make decision based on not what their constituents want but what is best for the country. In other words, at times, too much democracy can be bad.

Only in your world, and perhaps in Whoopsy’s world too, is a dictatorship best.  

This is not what Nick said... 

Just imagine this in Europe (I think this is a very good example of what Nick said): What if there would be a direct democracy and our "beloved" extreme right/left wing parties (they both love Putin and his doing) in Europe would propose to vote for the end of the military support for Ukraine against Russia. Then imagine that this poll comes at a time when hundreds of thousands of immigrants flood the borders, when inflation is still high and when people are very sensitive to their own economic situation and money. What happens then if voters decide to end the military aid for Ukraine? 

Nick made a very good point here, sometimes too much democracy can hurt a democracy, simply because populists and also propaganda campaigns from other countries (like Russia) can harm our democracies. The US is the best example: I am sometimes quite surprised how Americans fall for Russian propaganda carefully planted in their heads. I know and recognize this game for decades now and it surprises me over and over again WHO in the US falls for Russian propaganda. Hint: Not the left. 

I had to laugh out so loud when I saw Trump's latest video regarding Putin: "My friend Putin...".  Trust me, as someone who comes from Russian culture and knows Russian mentality well, I know exactly what Putin thinks about Trump and believe me, he doesn't consider Trump a friend, he doesn't even take him seriously BUT he may fear him, which is good and bad. Enough with politics though, wrong forum. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

There are mechanisms in Switzerland that limit the risks you describe, for example the double majority (citizens and states) required for all modifications to the constitution, and others. As you rightly mention, there are different types of democracies, just as there are different types of dictatorships, simplification and comparison here are a risky exercise.

Nicolas
Macan S/Ex-997.1/997.2 S/991.1 S/991.1 C4 GTS

Nico997:

There are mechanisms in Switzerland that limit the risks you describe, for example the double majority (citizens and states) required for all modifications to the constitution, and others. As you rightly mention, there are different types of democracies, just as there are different types of dictatorships, simplification and comparison here are a risky exercise.

Only when it comes to major changes in the constitution, like you described but what if, for example, some populists would try to poll the exit from NATO or as I mentioned before, the stop of military aid for Ukraine? Talking about Europe or the US here. Direct democracy isn't as good as it sounds. Maybe it should be applied to tax raises and stuff like that but not more complex situations like international affairs.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

CGX car nut:

nberry:

There are times that elected officials must make decision based on not what their constituents want but what is best for the country. In other words, at times, too much democracy can be bad.

Only in your world, and perhaps in Whoopsy’s world too, is a dictatorship best.  

This is not what Nick said... 

Just imagine this in Europe (I think this is a very good example of what Nick said): What if there would be a direct democracy and our "beloved" extreme right/left wing parties (they both love Putin and his doing) in Europe would propose to vote for the end of the military support for Ukraine against Russia. Then imagine that this poll comes at a time when hundreds of thousands of immigrants flood the borders, when inflation is still high and when people are very sensitive to their own economic situation and money. What happens then if voters decide to end the military aid for Ukraine? 
 

You don't even have to propose a hypothetical scenario... just look at the Brexit referendum and how that turned out... In Spain in the 80s the president conducted a referendum for the people to decide it they wanted Spain to join NATO, the result was NO... the president had to backtrack and not follow the results and decided to join NATO anyway because it was the right thing to do, but the people in general didn't know better. These things can backfire easily and in this day and she with social media and the like they can be manipulated like they can't imagine, ex Cambridge Analítica...

The Swiss are an exception, they are a very small country and also have a different mentality (more logical and pragmatic thinking and less passionate) for bad in some things and for good in others, and for this is good and direct democracy works well for them. Wish it would work for Spain but it wouldn't at all, it would be a weapon for populist politicians to make radical changes that otherwise would not be possible.

the French voted NO for Euro and yet our politicians put us in it and we all know the results...digging our own grave.

Democracy is what the people want, if they want to be wrong, that's the majority so be it. Oligarchy is what is driving EU at the moment and these guys are trapped into corruption and complacency...

Swiss system is working and surprise, that's one of the most powerful economy on the planet...

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

Cayenne Coupe Turbo 2020

According to Google, Swiss government debt to GDP is 41%. US is 130%+. UK is 100%. Germany is 70% and going up at a fast rate.

i will take the direct democracy.

BTW I am not sure that direct democrats is not scaleable? Why not? 

Switz has the highest social benefits of any western nation in the world. It also has one of the lowest tax to GDP rates. Why? One should at least ask the question. 

Why, because it is de- centralised. De-centralised government is by definition more efficient. If you go to church on Sun with the town major and tell him there is a pothole in the road, it gets fixed. In London, there is nothing that can be done